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Writer's pictureBryan Lee

Physical Attributes and Comparisons of Mast Options for Wingers: AFS 75cm, 80cm, and No Limitz 78cm.

Updated: 11 minutes ago


~Intro~

I was fortunate to find my way to AFS foils this spring/summer. I fell in love with the Silk lineup and added the Ultra to my quiver with little hesitation. For the first time I'm not wondering about other foils on the market and it's great to feel like I "arrived" on my dream rides.


What I did not expect, was to find myself in a situation where I was testing these foils on different masts all summer long. I had never put a lot of thought into mast selection other than length and stiffness. Testing all these masts provided me with an unexpected learning opportunity and I hope it's informative to those who are questioning their next mast choice.


~The Masts~

Masts and measurements listed in the order I tested them:

*Exact measurements and weights will vary from mast to mast.


AFS 80cm Ultra High Mod

Thickness: 13.8mm at foil. 15mm at center.

Chord: 115mm at foil. 114.8mm at center.

T/C at foil: .12

T/C at center: .131

Weight: 1839g Tied for heaviest.

Price: $1399


AFS adapted Cedrus Evolution Surf (CES)

Length: 77.5cm = 81-82cm with adapter.

Thickness: 19mm at foil - 16mm at center. Thickest.

Chord: 118mm at foil - 107.75mm at center.

T/C at foil: .16

T/C at center: .148

Weight: 1835g Tied for heaviest.

Price with bag and required adapter: $2,010 Highest price.


AFS 75cm Ultra High Mod

Thickness: 12.8mm at foil. 13.1mm at center. Thinnest.

Chord: 100mm at foil. 99mm at center.

T/C at foil: .128

T/C at center: .132

Weight: 1600g

Price: $1249 - Best price


AFS No Limitz V2

Length: 78cm = 80cm with AFS insert.

Thickness: 15.5mm at foil. 16mm at center.

Chord: 118.9mm at foil. 122mm at center.

T/C at foil: .13

T/C at center: .131

Weight: 1433g Lightest.

Price: $1350


*T/C is thickness divided by chord and is a metric for evaluating ventilation resistance that I learned about while doing this testing. The lower the number the better the ventilation resistance.


~The Foils~

All four of the following foils were tested on all four of the above masts:

AFS Silk 650, 850, 1050 (8 aspect ratio)

AFS Ultra 750 (14 aspect ratio)


~Why bother testing all these masts~

I was first introduced to the Silk foils with a demo on the 80cm AFS UHM mast. It's one of, if not the, very best all around mast I've ever ridden. When I tried the Silk foils on my Cedrus Evolution Surf mast I quickly identified issues with vibration and ventilation. I really wanted to try the AFS 75cm UHM mast so I ordered it to replace the Cedrus. Later on, I was contacted by No Limitz with an offer to test their v2 AFS mast so I figured, why not!?


~Testing Methods~

I went foiling. A lot. Over two thousand miles. I did speed checks. I did overhead swell rides. I rode in flat water. I rode in gusts over 60 knots. I rode in lulls under 10 knots. I did wing maneuvers. I foiled through boils, ship turbulence and whitewash. I tracked everything I could. Speed, distance, time, caloric expenditure, heart rate, and I journaled about everything I experienced on foil.


~My Style~

Above all else I prefer maneuverability. I like my kits that way because I enjoy fast rail to rail down the line surf performance in swell and I'm always striving to find ways to get great carving experiences that are are roll/yaw based and avoid excessive pitch requirements.


~Physical Attributes~

This article will be looking at the actual physical measurements and characteristics of these masts and discussing how I think those attributes impact my riding experience.


~How the winner will be determined~

There will not necessarily be a definitive winner. As I break down the various attributes of these masts you will need to consider what you personally value the most in your riding and which attributes will best serve your needs.



~AFS 80cm UHM~



Overall Impression.

IMO this mast is the gold standard for AFS. If I had no clue what someones riding style was and I could only recommend one mast this is it. The incredible stiffness, matched with a thin profile, nice chord length, and respectable weight make this mast the most perfectly well rounded you can buy for AFS foils.


When I ride this mast my confidence level is at its highest. The more variable speed sections are downwind rides, the narrower speed readouts are upwind periods.


Stiffness: Second place on my 5'10" 10.75lbs board.

  • Impacts: stability, responsiveness, predictability

I believe that first and foremost looking for masts that are properly stiff is critical. This mast is incredibly stiff and stable in any turbulence, tip breach, tack, 360, or on any other maneuver I put it through. The fact that this mast is so reliable in all conditions is a large part of why I fell in love with the Silk foils in the first place. A friend pointed out that my tacks had dramatically evolved on this mast: "It's pretty cool seeing tacks with the foil tips way out." I'd have to agree. This mast was so stiff and stable that while I could hear a burble, I couldn't feel the tip breaches at all and never hesitated to make hard turns in compromised water. My confidence in this mast led to a lot of progression this year.


Length: 80cm

  • Impacts: maneuverability, responsiveness, drag

As masts get longer, they lose rail to rail speed because they have a greater distance to travel. When they are shorter, they are very sensitive to rider input but their decreased length requires better pitch control. I'm very sensitive to this and dislike 85cm or longer masts. They are too slow rail to rail and leave my body feeling disconnected from the foil. On the other end of things, I still have a blast ripping around on a 66cm mast, especially on big foils in light winds. In my opinion, 80cm is the perfect middle ground. It's long enough that I can ride aggressively without worrying about breaching while still short enough that I can get good performance.


Chord: 115mm

  • Impacts: stability, maneuverability, average speed

Chord length is an intriguing metric that I think has a multilayered impact on our experience. This mast has a 115mm chord and it sits in the middle vs the other masts tested. I'll discuss the chord deeper with the other masts but just know that the chord on this mast gives it the most well balanced experience with good speed, glide, pump, and nice maneuverability.


Thickness: 13.8mm, 2nd place.

  • Impacts: top speed, fatigue

My experience points to thickness impacting speed as well as body fatigue for wingers. The thicker my foils and masts are the more drag there is and consequently the more difficult it is to absorb the foil vs sail tension with my body while holding a wing. The result is that on thicker gear I need to use a smaller sail in an attempt to neutralize body fatigue. 13.8mm thick is great and I didn't have any issues with drag or top speed limitations on this mast. Low heartrate PR on this mast is 90bpm.


Weight: 4lbs. 3rd place.

  • Impacts: pumping?

I'm not 100% in tune with how the weight of masts impact my experience on foil. This mast is tied for heaviest in the test and while I could feel the weight carrying it around on the beach I never thought about it in the water. I think I would need to have 4 masts with the same exact length, thickness, and chord but with different weights to fully grasp this concept. For the time being I assume lighter is better.


When paired with the Silks: 132 tail chopped.

The best carving performance. The Silks on this mast have a feeling of drive unlike any other foil/mast combo I've ridden. 1050, 850, 650 doesn't matter. I can feel this mast accelerating powerfully through carves which is an absolute thrill. On this mast I ride all the Silks with the 132 tail slightly chopped for maximum maneuverability. On the 650 I put the 132 tail in the short fuse position for a little more maneuverability.


When paired with the Ultra: HA 38 tail.

This mast/foil combo creates a well balanced and predictable experience on the Ultra 750 (14 AR). I ride it with the HA 38 tail and prefer putting it in the short fuse position for more maneuverability.


Build quality and durability:

I was first pointed to AFS foils when I asked the question "who has the best craftsmanship?" and AFS has never disappointed. They do all of their own manufacturing in France and across the board their foils and masts have all been stiff and light, something I am not used to. These masts are ultra high mod carbon fiber with a commonly spray coated base. Interestingly, the spray paint covers non aesthetically pleasing carbon fiber. I was informed by AFS that 15-20% of carbon fiber is wasted in foil production. AFS salvages this carbon and uses it in non aesthetically critical locations which reduces their waste down to 5%. Pretty cool in my opinion. A full inspection of both masts showed no abnormalities, no twists, nothing of any concern or worth making note of. After putting more than a thousand miles on the AFS masts I don't see any sign of wear from my riding.


Concerns:

None


Room for improvement:

Almost nothing. Decrease the weight?


Customer Service:

Unrivaled.


Greatest Strength:

Best all around mast choice.


Who I'd recommend it for:

I recommend this mast for all disciplines and skill levels. It's hard for me to imagine anyone being disappointed with it and it has never let me down in any scenario.


What this mast will teach me:

This mast is perfectly balanced to allow me to PUSH my kit as hard as possible. In many ways I think that is the perfect place for a foiler to be in. If your kit is too high performance and you are chasing it on the water you wont grow. A kit with proper stability and great range will leave tons of room for personal growth.



~AFS 75cm UHM~



Overall impression:

This is my daily driver and my personal choice for my AFS foils. It suits my style perfectly and allows me to surf all of the AFS foils exactly the way I envision them being ridden. I think it is best characterized as a high speed high performance carving mast. I like that it amplifies traits I already love on the AFS Silks and Ultra.



Stiffness: 3rd place but still 100% capable.

  • Impacts: stability, responsiveness, predictability

With the thinnest profile and a significantly shorter chord this mast has to give up a little bit of stiffness in comparison to the other masts, but just a sliver. Being slightly shorter also helps to compensate for this. That being said, I can still ride through any kind of turbulence, perform my most radical maneuvers, and breach tips without concern on this mast.


Length: 75cm, shortest in test.

  • Impacts: maneuverability, responsiveness, drag

75cm is the shortest mast in the test and my preferred length. It does require more focus with pitch control, especially when going upwind through big swell. It benefits from faster rail to rail performance and a more connected feel to the foil. It also means I have 5cm less drag in the water and makes it easier for me to stay tapped in to swell energy.


Chord: 100mm

  • Impacts: stability, maneuverability, speed, drag

This mast hops to the extreme end of the chord spectrum and might be the shortest chord on the market right now? I'm really excited about the 100mm depth because it unlocks a variety of characteristics that I value. So, let's unpack this a bit:

A short chord mast has a positive impact on maneuverability. IMO it makes larger foils feel smaller. I feel a faster response on the roll axis along with newfound freedom in the yaw axis. This translates into tighter carving, snappier turns and faster rail to rail performance. On the Silk 650 and Ultra 750 the fuse length is adjustable and reveals some interesting options. On the normal to deep chorded masts I always reached for the shortest fuse and the smallest tails in order to get as much maneuverability as possible. With a shorter chord I actually prefer, for the first time ever, a longer fuse. This eliminates a bit of pitch in my turns and makes riding in general smoother, carvier, more natural. For my style of riding, a short chord is absolutely the way to go and it's hard for me to return to deeper chorded masts if I don't change my mindset before getting on them.


Does it sacrifice anything? Yes. From my on water experience I'd say that it feels less stable than a deeper chord at high speeds. The yaw that is so fun at slower speeds is a bit spooky when going fast (and a thin mast with a short chord can go really fast). Also, it requires a precise pump technique. When I first got on it the yaw was so accessible that when I went to pump there was a "swivel" feeling to the pump. I got better at clean pumping with experience.


Thickness: 12.8mm, thinnest.

  • Impacts: speed, fatigue

This mast is a mere 12.8mm thick and I can feel it on foil. Top speeds and average speeds are increased but my favorite part of thin masts and foils is how minimal the drag impact is on my body. When this mast is matched with my Silk 650 (13.7mm thick) or Ultra 750 (12.3mm thick) I can't feel hardly any drag being managed by my body between the foil and wing. This allows for very long sessions in extreme conditions with minimal fatigue. Low heartrate PR on this mast is 82bpm.


Weight: 3.5lbs

  • Impacts: pumping?

Second best in the weight category at approximately 3.5lbs is nice for toting around on the beach and loading in and out of the car. I assume that there is a performance benefit on the water but I usually look for weight savings last.


When paired with the Silks: 132 tail chopped or standard.

This mast has the most aggressive rail to rail performance and a really tight turning radius with all Silk foils. I haven't mastered this mast yet but each day out on it I get more confident on and find the performance characteristics intoxicating. It works flawlessly with all the Silk foils and I use the 132 tail on all of them with the 650 in either short or long position depending on my priorities for the day. One special note is the Silk 1050. This foil paired with the 132 tail is very loose. I have found that while I can use, and love to use, the chopped 132 tail with the other masts it's quite simply out of control when paired with this mast.


When paired with the Ultra: HA 38

Stunning. The Ultra is one of my all time favorite foils when on this mast. I ride it with the HA 38 tail in the long position and find this to be a fantastically surfy ultra high aspect foil. The short chord keeps the Ultra loose even as it reaches higher speeds which I value.


Build quality and durability:

Same as 80cm UHM.


Concerns:

None


Room for improvement:

I'd love to see this chord in an 80cm model assuming that the added length doesn't compromise stiffness.


Customer Service:

Unrivaled. When I got this mast I noticed the bolt threads were set a little too deep and I was concerned that the OEM bolts might not grab well enough. I made one call and asked if I should send photos: "Nope, if you don't think it looks right then we will replace it. The new mast is on the way." Awesome.


Greatest Strengths:

Maneuverability. Speed.


Who I'd recommend it for:

I think intermediate and advanced riders who are already comfortable on a loose kit and are looking to prioritize their maneuverability and average speed will be thrilled with this mast. Beginner riders can still enjoy this mast just be careful about sizing down your stabilizer too quickly.


What this mast will teach me:

How to grow into looser kits with higher surf performance. I have maxed out the stabilizer minimums and fuse minimums on all other foil setups I ride. With this mast I've had to dial things back a bit because I was chasing the foils when riding my smallest stab and fuse settings.


~No Limitz v2 78cm~


Overall impression:

I see a LOT of these masts in the Gorge but I've never had the opportunity to ride the right length and brand with a No Limitz mast. So, getting to try the 78cm with the AFS foils that I am most skilled on was a real treat. My very first ride was a 2.25 mile downwind swell ride on the Silk 1050 (I popped up on to foil and immediately flagged out) which was double anything I had ever done on the Cedrus Evolution mast. So, it clearly has excellent pump and glide. This mast maneuvers differently than the AFS masts and I can 100% understand why there's so many downwind riders who seem to love it.


Stiffness: 1st place. All of these masts are plenty stiff for my riding but I believe that the added chord depth of the NL v2 makes for an even stiffer feel in turbulent situations.

  • Impacts: stability, responsiveness, predictability

Undeniably stiff. This mast is a little thicker than the AFS masts and a little deeper in the chord. This creates an extremely stiff setup, especially when looking at torsional stiffness. Riding through turbulence, whitewater, tip breaches, etc is a bit of a joke on this mast. When I saw whitewater coming ahead of me I actually started to grin and think, "yeah that doesn't matter."


Length: 78cm + Adapter = 80cm.

  • Impacts: maneuverability, responsiveness, drag

This is my perfect all around length for the Gorge.


Chord: 119mm

  • Impacts: stability, maneuverability, average speed

This mast has the deepest chord in the test, 4mm deeper than the AFS 80cm and 19mm deeper than the AFS 75cm. This changes the experience and I think it's worth comparing this 119mm chord vs the AFS 100mm chord.


First off is the stability of this mast. I mentioned above that this is a stiff mast and that riding through whitewater is a bit of a joke. The stiffness matched with this chord length seems to create a powerfully stable platform to manage turbulence with. I think this is likely because the chord depth tightens up the yaw of the mast and allows it to glide through problematic waters with little issue. Next on the list of stability bonuses is pumping. I felt like this chord provided a huge platform to pump off of and I think that's why I had such a long first glide on it. All my pump energy was easily translated into performance. Last, the deeper chord lends itself to great stability when doing powered speed runs, better than any other mast in this test and it took no more than 2-3 reaches across the river to match all my speed records.


This chord depth does give up maneuverability and carving radius. This lends itself to a riding style that is more flowy than aggressive and it made linking swell and downwinding a very relaxed experience for me. I had to switch my brain from doing what I normally do (down the line, fast rail to rail, top to bottom turns) to more of a power carve and flow down the river focus.


Thickness: 15.5mm

  • Impacts: top speed, fatigue

This mast is a little thicker than the AFS options and I did notice decreased top speed when going upwind. Fatigue was not a major concern on this mast even when managing wings in speeds over 30 knots but my low heartrate PR on this mast was 99bpm which is just a bit higher than the thinner/shorter chord masts.


Weight: 3.16lbs. Lightest.

  • Impacts: pumping?

It's kind of crazy that this mast is the thickest with the deepest chord while also being the lightest. It pumped like a dream and makes me think that the stiffness, stability, and light weight traits all lend themselves well to pump performance.


When paired with the Silks: 132 tail, chopped.

Plan to rely on the awesome roll axis of the Silks when using the NL v2. As mentioned above, this mast isn't going to be hack and slash style riding, it's going to be flowy with more powerful carving maneuvers. I ride the 650 fuse in the short position on this mast and I use the chopped 132 on all Silks with the NL v2.


When paired with the Ultra: HA 38 tail.

Short fuse on this foil as well. The Ultra when matched with the NL v2 definitely feels a bit stiff with the 1024mm span. The crazy stiffness and stability of this mast allowed for some pretty cool low end performance statistics with the Ultra. Here you can see how this foil/mast combo just hovers at low speeds. This is really nice when riding and linking swell:

Verses the Cedrus Evolution on the same foil which was not as stiff and stable for me:



Build quality and durability:

When I looked over the entire mast I didn't find any issues. The foil profile was extremely uniform and well balanced. I was especially impressed with how small the adapter was. My Cedrus adapter for AFS was more than double the size and a hefty chunk of metal to add to the end of my mast.


Concerns:

None.


Room for improvement:

Being a third party manufacturer No Limitz uses adapters to make their masts work with a wide variety of brands. I assume manufacturing single piece masts for all these different brands would be a monumental undertaking but I'd love to have a No Limitz v3 that has no adapters.


Customer Service:

I personally have no experience with their customer service. A buddy of mine did have an issue with his and it was replaced within 2 weeks without any hassle.


Best attributes I noticed:

Stiffness, weight, low end.


Who I'd recommend it for:

Downwind riders, swell aficionados, speedsters.


What this mast would teach me:

Confidence at high speeds. My time with the NL v2 was brief relatively speaking but in the short time I had it I gained a ton of confidence going fast and I'm really appreciative that I even got the opportunity to ride it. This has translated to me riding much faster than before on my AFS masts.



Cedrus Evolution Surf 77.5cm


I've decided to skip reviewing the Cedrus Evolution mast since I had so many issues with it that are documented in another post so I'll keep this short.


When I reported vibration and ventilation concerns to Project Cedrus I was told that they thought the AFS Silk foils were actually ventilating because the short chord of the Evolution Surf mast was resulting in tighter turning radius's that caused the foils to ventilate. I've never heard a statement like that before and the idea that a mast wasn't ventilating, but was actually making foils ventilate seemed odd. That's exactly why I bought the AFS 75cm UHM mast. It has a 100mm chord vs the Evolution Surf 107.75mm/118mm chord. At this point I have about 500 miles on the AFS 75cm UHM mast. I have not had a single instance of vibration or ventilation on this mast (or the AFS 80cm or NL v2 mast) on any hard heelside tacks and hard turns where as the Evolution Surf seemed to be ventilating about 50% of the time when I tried those same turns. So, I think it's safe to say that the idea presented by Project Cedrus that the Silk foils were ventilating in tight turns is refuted.


What I learned from this mast:

No matter how cool or high performance I think a mast is, if I am riding scared of ventilation I simply cannot have fun on the water.


~Lessons Learned~

There's a ton to unpack from this experience about how to pick the perfect mast for yourself. The biggest takeaways for me are that:

  1. I was blissfully unaware of ventilation until this year. However, it will terminate any fun I can have because getting hurt while playing sucks.

  2. Stiffness is still king, but only to a point. I 100% need a mast that is "stiff enough" and with my boards all clocking in under 6' in length and dropping towards 10lbs I know what I need/want to be able to perform in all Gorge conditions.

  3. Short chorded masts are an exciting part of the future of my foiling but deep chorded masts are still tons of fun and have plenty of their own unique strengths and lessons to share.

  4. I'm especially interested in the more nuanced aspects of how the mast can be the starting point for building out my foil, fuse, and stab selections.

  5. Every detail matters.


~Thank You~


Special thanks to No Limitz for offering up a mast for testing as well as to Gwen at Wingfoil Pro Center for letting me use the AFS 80cm UHM for so long. Without their support articles like this wouldn't exist. Huge thanks to all the riders and industry professionals who reached out to support me during all of this testing. Without our communities shared resources and mentorship it takes far longer to learn and progress at the sport we love.


See you at the river,


Bryan Lee, M.S. Experiential Education.

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2 Comments


Roland Laliberte
Roland Laliberte
Oct 15

"Stiffness is still king, but only to a point." Does this mean a mast can be too stiff, as though there is point of diminishing returns?

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Bryan
Bryan
Oct 15
Replying to

Good question and hopefully I can clarify. I don't know that a mast can be too stiff, I've never experienced that. However, I do think there is a point of diminishing returns. All three of these masts were plenty stiff for me at 86kg with a 5'10" board that weighs 10.75lbs. as a winger. So, me paying for an even stiffer mast would be silly. However, some people, with more weight, on bigger boards, and with different riding styles, in different disciplines, might demand more stiffness than I do. Foiling is quite nuanced and requires each user to know their wants and needs so they can appropriately select equipment.

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